Good news for TiVo investors - bad news for Dish Network DVR users - UPDATE 2
You know that huge advantage that we thought Dish Network had over DirecTV, with their 30 national HD stations and multitude of HD DVRs; well, that might come crashing down in a few weeks. TiVo won their lawsuit of patent infringement against Dish Network's parent company, Echostar. The judgment involves EchoStar paying $74.9 million to TiVo because it "willfully infringed [on] TiVo patents that allowed for the digital storage of TV programming." The most significant part of the judgment for many of our readers fails under the second part where EchoStar must basically render all but 192,708 DVR units useless. We don't know what DVRs that will be just yet, but it is safe to say that a good amount of their 12 million + subscriber base is going to be affected. The judge went one step farther too when he denied EchoStar's request that the judgment be held during the appeals processes. This doesn't look to good folks and we will keep you up-to-date with info as it comes down the Internet pipes.
Read: Reuters
Read: EchoStar's response
UPDATE 1: The US Federal Appeals Court of Washington DC just blocked the injunction according to an EchoStar press release. This means that they will be able to still sell and operate their DVRs -- for the moment at least. (Thanks for the heads up Jay)
UPDATE 2: Zatz Not Funny has copies of the injunction if that is your type of thing.
















Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
cckrobinson @ Aug 18th 2006 11:41AM
Holy Crap! I'm sure happy that I own Tivo stock, and that I dumped my Dish DVR 6 months ago. I do feel bad for the rest of you guys however.
Ken @ Aug 18th 2006 11:49AM
Ummmm, wow, that could be pretty serious.
We will see what happens.
Blackberry case anyone?
Kevin @ Aug 18th 2006 11:55AM
I'm sure Echostar and tivo will reach some sort of settlement before it affects that many users.
Jay @ Aug 18th 2006 12:05PM
Its already been blocked by federal appeals court. Dish can continue to sell and operate their DVR's.
BobMac @ Aug 18th 2006 12:25PM
I hope Comcast can work out a deal with TiVo before I lose my DVR.
Jay @ Aug 18th 2006 12:58PM
umm, poster #5, Comcast already did..
Erick @ Aug 18th 2006 1:22PM
Uh, those 192,708 units.....are those the newer vi622 HD-DVRs? If so, I don't much care about those SD-DVR folks...haha...oh, wait, sorry, I do....that stinks. But, really I was just planning on jumping from Cable....with all the incentives, I could save a little money monthly for a while switching to hi-speed DSL and satellite, not to mention the PQ is 100% (or more) better on Sat than my adelphia service.
This scares me...Ben/Matt/HDBeat guys...does this affect me/the HD-DVR?
Matt Burns @ Aug 18th 2006 1:36PM
Erick - I wish we knew for sure but I have a feeling that it is for older boxes.
WASD John @ Aug 18th 2006 4:59PM
What does this mean for any company Cable or Satellite that offers a DVR box? I mean couldn't the time shift thing be applied to more than just Dishnetwork DVRs?
Bill @ Aug 18th 2006 7:06PM
I think everyone is overreacting, particularly hdbeat. Dish is kicking DirecTV's butt lately with better content, better HD, and a much better DVR. They are NOT going to just let this happen without some kind of action. I would assume they will bite the bullet and pay the licensing fee to Tivo as a last resort. But before then they will continue to fight this.
What I'm not clear on are the details. Supposedly this affects some of the DVRs, not necessarily all. I'm not sure which, but I also heard only the older ones (which is great, beacause I JUST got a 622). Also Echostar is saying they are working on software changes to prevent this infringement from happening again. What are those changes and what will they do to the funcionality of the 622, if anything?
I'm crossing my fingers but am fairly confident nothing serious will happen to the end users.
img eL Ce De @ Aug 18th 2006 7:17PM
Sounds good to me! come on Dish & Tivo get a deal done, i want my new HD Tivo box!!!
bob @ Aug 19th 2006 9:16AM
If TIVO had got up off their fat lazy asses and made some improvements and an effort to promote their units they would not be in this mess. TIVO does not have the money or the clout to fight DISH. Dish took a good idea and improved on it, that's the American way. TIVO just figured they had the market cornered from the get go and they would sit on their duff and make money. They could have ben smart and improved it and licensed it to everyone had they any marketing brains.
cckrobinson @ Aug 19th 2006 10:52PM
#12, I think it's a bit of stretch to say that Dish improved on Tivo's ideas. Have you ever used their boxes? Granted they are better than most cable DVR's, but the interface is not nearly as nice as a Tivo. I leased the Dish 942 HD DVR for a year, and then dumped it for a HTPC. To this day my wife complains that we got rid of our Direct Tivos.
Tivo was the first company to offer a HD DVR (via DirecTV). They tried for several years to work a deal with Dish, but instead Dish pushed them aside and "borrowed" their technology. Granted, it has taken Tivo a long time to deliver on the stand alone HD DVR, but I attribute that to the cable companies. If they would have gotten off of their asses and supported Cable Card then Tivo would have launched the Series 3 ages ago. Considering that Tivo is currently being offer by DirectTV (#1 satellite provider), and Comcast (#1 cable provider), I'd say that they have done pretty well marketing their product. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that hasn't heard of a Tivo.
When the Series 3 Tivo is launched this fall, it will be by far the most fully featured DVR on the market.
JSilvia @ Aug 20th 2006 12:14AM
All I know is this: If this lawsuit ends up turning off my DVR from Dish, I will not buy a Tivo to replace it.
If Tivo pulls the plug, they will have made an enemy out of me, and the 12 million other folks out there who are affected.
Dish didn't deal with Tivo because their greed for the $15/month service fee was outragous, and Dish knew it. They only charge $6/month for their service.
cckrobinson @ Aug 20th 2006 10:43PM
Where did you see that Tivo wanted $15 per month? DirecTV customers only pay $4.99 per month for their SD Tivo boxes, and you can add as many additional boxes as you want for no extra cost. I don't recall what the fee is different the HD DirecTivo. I can't imagine that the deal that they were looking for with Dish would have been much different. I'm pretty sure that Tivo only gets $1 for each DirecTV customer that signs up for the service. Stand alone Tivo customers have always been pissed because they have had to pay a higher monthly fee than DirecTV customers.
HD-DVR User @ Aug 21st 2006 10:12PM
This is very troublesome to me. I have only been a Dish customer since May, I spent the extra money to get the HD-DVR and it has been well worth it. The other providers do not offer half the HD programming Dish does. It is unfortionate that the ones really loosing in this battle are the consumers.
Ben Drawbaugh @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:03AM
#16,
You are exactly right, if Dish and everyone else would have just licensed TiVo technology instead of Copying it than this would have never happend and all the consumers would have a better product and we wouldn't have to worry about our DVRs being turned off.
Sparhawk @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:37PM
Posters 7 & 8: Last April, TiVo dropped the patent infringement claim against the DishPlayer 7200 PVRs.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=68854&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=842925
I believe this model is safe.
According to http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_103.html, these models are definitely affected: "DP-501, DP-508, DP-510, DP-721, DP-921, DP-522, DP-625, DP-942, and all EchoStar DVRs that are not more than colorably different from any of these products"
tthompson @ Aug 24th 2006 10:07AM
Let's hope this gets setteld fairly before too long. DN's integrated IRD/ recorder is an excellent piece of gear and the grid is very easy to operate.
I chose DN over DTV years ago because DTV's compression scheme was insufficient for the allotted bandwidth. Translation: DTV used to suffer from heavy pixelization during high activity/movement scenes. Large square chunks of video goop instead of a clean, flowing picture.
Let's hope they get it worked out!
GB @ Aug 26th 2006 9:34PM
WHERE'S THE POST I JUST MADE?
... NEWSCORP EMPLOYEE...
GB @ Aug 26th 2006 9:34PM
DIRECTV IS A TIVO PARTNER.
IF DIRECTV ASSUMES OWNERSHIP OF DISHNET, THE DVRS WOULD NOT EVEN BLINK OFF FOR A SECOND.
DO WE SEE A LOGICAL RESOLUTION THAT IS ALREADY IN THE MAKING?
I THINK SO.
...A NEWSCORP EMPLOYEE...